Soapbox: Are We Ready For A 3D Super Mario Maker?

I am not ready for that jelly.

Ah, no. I'll just wait for the next 3D Mario game, thanks. Don't even want to imagine what bad player-created levels would be like in 3D lol

Nope, thanks. Just a regular 3D Mario for me.

Infinite Mario 64 levels just sounds like a dream come true. Please do this Nintendo!

Of course, it would have to be handled correctly, as this kind of thing would be very easy to mess up.

No, even if you have it just be a 3D World level maker it would either be too complicated for your average joe or you'd have to simplify it so much that it would make all the levels made in it very samey
And there is also a fact that regular Mario Maker is filled with garbage, I can't imagine how much worse it would be if it was 3D
This is just one of those thing that, just like Zelda Maker, people think they want but don't really realize how much it would require to make something decent in (although Zelda Maker has a lot of it's own issues that would make it not that fun but that's a topic for a different day)

Not before Nintendo makes a Zelda Maker, so changes are highly unlikely if you ask me.

I'd love to just play Galaxy 2

Sure why not. Would be interesting hopefully.

Yeah I can't imagine this ever happening. Nintendo giving the public the "keys to the kingdom" with 2D Mario (as articles put it at the time) is one thing. It's so retro it might as well be public domain; 2D Mario functions essentially as an advertisement for "real" new Nintendo games. But doing it in 3D would be pretty much building Unity with a hundred QOL plugins and priceless licensed assets and selling it for $50 a pop. That truly would be undermining the value of Mario games, in my opinion; giving away the magic. Mario Maker 1 & 2 were complete anomalies in history; at best we'll get more of the same one day, but I wouldn't be surprised if we never see it happen again at all from Nintendo.

Would much prefer a Mario Kart Maker game, had a blast with Little Big Planet Karting and ModNation Racers back in the day.

YES OMFG YES IV BEEN WANTING THIS FOR LITERAL DECADES! For those of you who dont know theres been people creating mario 64 level makers for rom hacks and its amazing.

I would love to play mario odyssey custom content.

If a 3d Mario Maker ever happens when it comes out Ill probably never buy another video game after it ever again. This has been my biggest hope of a game for ever!

3d mario maker is my most wanted dream game

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE MAKE IT HAPPEN ILL BUY 7000000000000 COPIES

@PikminMarioKirby Thats exactly how I feel !

@Ralizah Some mods are absolutely brilliant. Some are complete stinkers. I’ve played some abysmal SM64 hacks lmao

I would say no to a 3D Mario Maker solely because I think the skill gap between creating in 2D and 3D is much much higher and I’m not sure they can do it in a user-friendly way that would encourage more than the most devoted fans already. Hacks for SM64 are also freer compared to what would ultimately be a closed ecosystem in a suite like this, I doubt you’ll be able to change the core mechanics of the game in a meaningful way.

Lots of really good rom hacks out there already. Not sure how you would make it easy for us non programmers to make a 3D game though. Dreams was a total flop in the end

It might be time to get creative. I would at least give it an honest try.

If they did do this, I don't think there'd be 'styles' per se as there is in smm2, giving us keys to make our own sm64 or sunshine feels a bit too much freedom, and takes away any magic or sales potential the originals have.
I imagine it more working as a kind of unique 3d mario style exclusive to the maker, very similar to sm3d world in terms of controls. Maybe they'd add a couple fun reference features like a fludd power-up or something, but i dont think any further than that. I imagine the maker would essentially allow for custom levels very similar to 3d world

I don't think I'd ever buy another Mario Maker honestly. I've bought both of the first two and kind of quickly just completely stopped bothering with them, and any attempt to go back just immediately feels like I could be playing a regular Mario game that has actual quality control instead.

That would be insane, and a good title too! Switch Attach launch title?

@nessisonett Agreed.

Add onto that that people who are hardcore enough to get into modifying old Nintendo games are probably going to be knowledgable and creative enough to go interesting places with those skills (not always, as you attested, but a lot of the time). Versus your random person with a Switch who knows nothing about good level design.

Mario Maker 1 and 2 had some cool levels, but they were little gems buried under enormous masses of garbage.

@UltimateOtaku91 MK9 could really use a level editor like MNR, they’ve had a decade to work on it, throw us something basic.

I don’t think MM 3D could work. 3D games are hard, even actual professional gaming devs have problems trying to make 3D games. Trine 1 & 2 were great, their foray into 3D in 3 not so much. There are other examples. I played a bunch in Dreams but nothing I’d pay for.🤷🏻‍♂️

For a second, I thought the thumbnail was a reissue of Super Mario 3D Allstars or maybe a Allstars 2.

But no, I'm not ready for a Mario 3D Maker

@Ralizah The best thing about Dreams over Mario Maker was that it was a sh*tpost repository. The actual good games coming out of it were so few and far between that it essentially served as a lesson that game development is incredibly hard and that 99% of the world doesn’t have the blend of creativity and engineering required to pull it off. Mario Maker just isn’t quite open enough to allow for the funny side of bad games, so you end up with really depressingly bad levels that make you feel nothing inside.

I would love a 3D Mario Maker, but I'd also be happy to see another 2D entry since we still have so many missing features in 2D like placeable water, lava, and poison tiles, diagonal pipes, and tons of enemies plus themes like mountain and beach.

As much as I love Mario games and in particular the 3D Variety, I don't think this would be such a good idea.

If Mario maker taught me anything, it was that the vast majority of us (myself included) are absolutely terrible at creating Mario levels.

I say leave it to the professionals

Sounds good in theory, would be aweful in practice

If a Mario 3D Maker happens it'll be in the style of 3D Land/World.

Oh god no. A third dimension adds so much complexity that folks are not ready to take on. Slopes alone are potentially so complex that it's a big ask to create something as "simple" as, say, Bob-Omb Battlefield. There would have to be significant limitations on so much of the tools to ensure things would keep working that the whole thing would just feel like unfilled potential. To me it feels like a complete non-starter.

Hell yes I'd go for some Super Mario 3D Maker

I'm pretty meh on this idea, but I'll tell you what my dream maker would be - a Soulslike Construction Kit.

I’m not just ready, I’m ready, Freddy.

Making a decent 2D level is hard enough, making it in 3D is ten times harder. I mean there are games that do it, Fall Guys does now but the results are not so great most of the time.

Plus on a personal level, unlike the pixel art before it, N64’s visuals have not aged well. I would not be excited to see them return.

People can't even handle 2D or the most basic tenets of level design lol.

But do it anyways.

Oh man naaah I don't think there's a way to make a 3d level editor easy to use unless it's very limited

It would be an interesting concept but given what Mario Maker 2 ended up being, I get the feeling you'd just end up with a load of "Refreshing Special" levels but in 3D.

3D is too difficult for 90% of the people that make levels with Mario Maker. So no. Mario Maker should remain 2D, or maximum of 2.5D

A fan-made Super Mario Maker-style web editor for Super Mario 64 is already in development, actually, called Mario Builder 64. I personally think it looks great.

Example video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iV5IK-Xm6n4

Maybe a 2.5 style along the lines of Super Mario 3D World (for real this time) or Kirby and the Forgotten Land. It should be grid-based.

Nah — it sounds like it'll be as clunky and imprecise as the base building segment in Fallout 4. Hell even the original Mario 64 felt like a tech demo for 3D gaming, can you imagine the amount of unfinished, mediocre trash that will clog up the servers?

I’m not sure where all these claims that “3D is too hard for the public” are coming from. Why not let people try? I’m a programmer/coder, and I enjoy working on games in my free time, yet I would enjoy a tightly implemented and limited (yet fun) 3D Mario toolset to play around with.

@Ade117 I agreed, sometimes when I start replaying a 2D Mario game I see very clearly everything missing from Mario Maker, which is nuts since there's already a ton of stuff.

@FishyS @Axecon I would like to see creation tools for making the 2D levels found in Super Mario Odyssey (e.g. levels that wrap around 3D objects, hidden passages, reverse gravity sections, etc.). Basically, I want 3D shapes that I can wrap the 2D levels around.

Yes, bring on the hot garbage!

I mean, I would certainly buy it… but I don’t believe they’ll make it. 3D development is much more complicated, and making it easy to use but capable enough to do what people want is a big challenge, and that’s without even getting into bug proofing and dealing with exploits and so on and so forth. I don’t know… I’d love to see it but it sounds a lot harder than a Zelda Maker and that’s apparently too much for Nintendo.

If it's something like Mario 3D World, more streamlined and enclosed, it could perfectly well be done. I'm not sure if we would see a lot of good stuff made by players, but you never know...

In any case, I'd rather have a Zelda Maker.

I don't want a 3D Mario maker... I find the Mario Maker games really, really frustrating to find just plain, good, "normal" Mario levels. The discovery of decent levels is a nightmare - and don't get me started on Nintendo's level codes, like that's a way to share content these days!

What I really want is a 3D Mario made by Nintendo that is good. Not the half baked Sunshine. Not the rushed Odyssey. Not the linear Galaxy 2.

In fact, you know what? Just release that second Mario 64 game. That'll do it.

And then get Odyssey 2 out the door, but done properly this time. None of this unlimited moons nonsense.

@nocdaes Odyssey didn’t feel rushed at all. What.

3D building requires a lot of tools from the game and knowledge from the player, I think it would be too complicated

Building something along the lines of Sunshine, SM64, Galaxy ecc. seems unfeasible... but maybe if the 3d aspect is more like Super Mario 3D land, which is way simpler, it could be done. I'm imagining basically a very linear level, like a 2d level, with a few blocks placeable in the z-axis but not enough that it breaks the linearity, and a fixed camera (basically the first minute in the first level of Mario 3D Land)

It seems unlikely a decent 3D development interface could be scaled down to an interface like the Mario Maker games, at least presented the way NIntendo would likely want to. “Dreams” did provide a 3D toolset, but it gets much more involved than MM does and you would get way too much rubbish if they offered the same sort of sharing options.

As much as they gave us with Mario Maker, there was already a ton of things Mario games have nearly always had that were impossible to do with it. Levels routinely had larger set piece areas and mechanics MM didn’t try to replicate. Think of how often in Super Mario World that large slabs of path moved back and forth against each other to create routes that opened and closed and gave you safe spots to wait until the openings line up. Or even all the pendulum platforms that only move when you stand on them.

Now that Wonder has raised the bar even further for level specific gimmicks and physics, a potential Mario Maker 3 would have it’s hands full just trying to come close to providing the full range of possibilities even the 33 year old SMW had. And the way NIntendo stopped supporting MM2 with updates so fast makes you wonder if continuing Maker titles is a high enough priority to them.

I’d be happy to see anything they might do in the future, but I won’t hold my breath expecting they’re preparing to give us new keys to go even deeper.

There's no point on doing that. Also i think it's kinda risky, to me, Super Mario Maker killed New Super Mario Bros saga that's why Wonder had to do a big job in bringing something unique

Honestly I think I'd enjoy a 3D one more than a 2D one. 2D Mario Maker was fine but never really did it for me that much, admittedly.

@amongtheworms Hey, hold on, we're in a comment section!
Didn't you know that commenters and gamers don't know anything about game development?

It's crazy to me how many people in the comments section are against Mario Maker because they don't know how to navigate the game.

I've found 100 amazing people I follow in game, and I'm always happy to see a new upload from them.

Plus the popular tab has quite a few good levels, and detailed search allows you to filter by popularity, game style, game theme, and difficulty.

There are so many good levels that I continue to get thousands of hours of gameplay out of.

YES! But not for me. I would love to see what people can come up with though!

I would rather have some new 2D themes for Mario Maker that are based on the 3D games similar to what they did with 3D World

Naw, not 3D. A Kirby-Maker, yes. Lots of variety to be had there from Adventure, superstar, dreamland 3 and even 64, with plenty of abilities to add in.

I doubt they could easily make something useful to a general audience (and not have to constantly update) that could fit the standard game pricetag. Maybe in another decade or so. That being said they have a franchise for it in Game Builder Garage.

I'm always ready for it!

While a 3D Mario maker game sounds cool on paper, it'll lose all appeal that the original game had. Developing a game in 3D is entirely different from developing something in 2D, and the same can be said for game-making tools like RPG Maker or Mario Maker. There's a reason why most game making games focus on 2D or sprite-based development as opposed to fully 3D gameplay.

There are games like Dreams on PS4, where the game is centered around the development of fully 3D games. Due to that however, the software is pretty hard to utilize and it often feels more complex for most to even attempt making a game in the first place. There's an audience for it, but it reaches a different target demographic from the people who would be inclined to buy something like Mario Maker. A target that would just as well play something else, given that they probably wouldn't want to be confined to just Mario.

Makes sense as the next evolution of Mario Maker, though making an intuitive 3D Mario level maker won't be easy at all, certainly far more difficult than a 2D Mario level maker.

I really thought I’d like the Mario Maker games, but it turns out I only really like a couple stellar ROM hacks.

I was not impressed with the user created levels I played. I would much rather Nintendo not devote any resources to something like a new MM and instead deliver a new, instant classic 3D Mario.

@Ade117 Right! Even playing random levels, I don’t find as many bad levels as people claim to find.

No. Nyet. Nein. Kekkodesu.

It's an interesting proposition. It has a ton of potential. But it takes a lot more skill to make a 3d game. If a random 7-yr-old makes a 2D Mario level, it's probably going to be decently fun. If a random 7-yr-old makes a 3D Mario level... I don't know, man. It's probably going to be pretty boring, or else completely chaotic. But I'd definitely be interested in what could be made by the more skilled makers.

Very unpopular answer but YES and it will be better called 3D platformer maker which you can design your own character, place the 3D properties, set the gameplay rules (with Time limit or Not), some additional features.
I can imagine something like Spyro or Ratchet & Clank clones from 3D Platformer maker.
I mean why not ?

Nah, I think it would cheapen and ruin the 3D Mario experience. Rather leave it to the experts.

I have Dreams on PlayStation and most of the stuff on it is so bad compared to 2D game makers! 3D is very hard to design

@FishyS

I never said that I had any actual talent. Bring on the super-kaizo-invisible-goomba-troll levels! 😌 Seriously though, I really like tools like MM because it allows people who don’t jam with programming etc to design and create. Love seeing what others come up with!

Can't envision it. Placing things on a 2 d plane is one thing, but 3d sounds a bit too far. Mixing and matching elements from such different things like 64 and Sunshine....
It would get a bit nightmareish and broken with the creations some people would put out.

Let's leave this playground to the experts I say!

Wow, everyone here clearly has no idea what they're talking about. The Mario Maker games have not devalued the expert level design and curated experience that Mario Wonder provides.

If that argument had any bearing, then music would be devalued as soon as its sheet music was distributed, or as soon as the instruments were made available for everyone to purchase and learn themselves. Sure, everyone has a guitar or extra keyboard lying around their homes, and many others collect sheet music for their favorite songs, but does that devalue the magic of hearing a professional musician perform the song? Absolutely not!

And as far as it being too complex, there will always be a vast majority of mediocrity stacked against a small handful of people who stick with any kind of tools long enough to excel. This was already an issue for Mario Maker 1-2, and it won't be exponentially worse or better for a 3D installment.

It's like you guys are giving kids these days absolutely zero credit. Kids are, in fact, capable of learning multiple languages by 10; becoming proficient at computer programming; and much more.

It is certainly not at all the case that 3D level design is too complex for most people. Just like the guitar or keyboard sitting in your closet is not too complex for you to pull out and learn how to play. The question really, is will you? Even after purchasing the tools to playing your own music, or designing your own 3D game levels, do you have the willpower to stick with it long enough to become proficient? And the answer is most people do not have that kind of willpower or attention span these days. But that is more of a widespread societal problem rather than specifically a 3D level editor problem.

Timing seems to be perfect I think:
Mario's 40th, SMM1's 10th, Switch 2 (presumably more powerful)

In terms of being complicated, I can't imagine it being harder than Game Builder Garage and that was targeted at like kids lol

More than once you refer to designing 3D levels as "a bit" more complicated than 2D ones. It's orders of magnitude more complicated, at least for the 64/odyssey type of 3D. Yes there are some talented individuals out there who make excellent levels, but it would not come anywhere near close enough to the mainstream accessibility of 2D level design for Nintendo to consider making it as a game offering, even if they were willing to do all the work involved.

3D Land/World style might work at a push, but I still don't believe they'd do it.

We're not. It's too hard to pull off in a way that normal people can use.

Warra entry game it would be for the Switch 2.0

@Ade117 Incidentally, I have made some Mario Maker 2 levels myself. I am no pro designer, but I tried to make some creative levels.

LKN-HJG-91G 😊